Tuesday, April 24, 2007

Warning: Obscene Language

After reading this observation from the previous thread (quoted thusly, and like so)...

bepatient said...
I try to steer clear of the Closed forum but occasionally I pop in to see what is going on and I skimmed through and saw a comment that SG is the "head demon".


...I went for a stroll through the Forum linked in the list to your right, the one innocuously named the "New BBC Open Forum", but which is more accurately known as the "Closed Forum" for its lack of hospitality toward those who do not line up with the anti-Bellevue sentiments fermenting there. (I would have preferred to make these observations in an e-mail, but it's been a long time since the Forum moderator deigned to respond to one.) Don't take my word for what goes on there, though--here are some recent examples, beginning with the aforementioned "head demon" reference.

Hmm?

Oh, yes. Quoted thusly, and like so:

The demons have been loosed on BBC, with the head demon, SG, directing them.

Matt 18 only works with believers who have actual fruit. It does not work with people who are deceptive...professing christians with no fruit.

I described what is happened at BBC as "voodoo".

Are any of you Christians? You certainly are not showing the fruit of a believer!

The leadership at BBC has many similiarities as the brutes in Jonestown. Matter of fact, many of the members at BBC have decided to stick their brains in their pockets and allow SG and his band of thugs to do their thinking for them, just like the people in Jonestown.

The Antichrist should put BBC on his list to visit right off the bat. SG has prepared his flock to usher in the antichrist. No doubt they will give him a standing ovation, if they haven't already.


Have these remarks been deleted? Have those who posted them been reproved?

No, and no. There are occasional calls for a calmer tone, but they (obviously) go unheeded. Keep in mind that repeated calls for a more civil discourse do get reprimanded, but denying the salvation of professing Christians, comparing Bellevue to a non-Christian cult, and insisting the Antichrist will feel very much at home among the "demons" there are the coin of their bitter realm. Their remarks are not only untouched, but encouraged.

Nevertheless, and just as with the so-called "Saving Bellevue" site, I leave a link to the Closed Forum in the list to your right. But be warned--the Forum is a place loaded with obscenities and filth. Strap on your hip waders before you enter, and take a long, hot shower after you depart.

It doesn't have to be that way, though. Once again, I beg those who participate in the Forum, in the name of Jesus, to repent of their mindset and their actions. They do nothing to heal, and do much to harm.

--Mike

51 comments:

solomon said...

In my opinion, I don't think any professing Christian should contribute to that blog any more than they should go to a strip club.

I don't think we've seen the worst yet, either.

Mortified said...

"The Antichrist should put BBC on his list to visit right off the bat. SG has prepared his flock to usher in the antichrist. No doubt they will give him a standing ovation, if they haven't already."

Mr. Bratton,

I think that the clear inference of that statement is that Steve Gaines is the antichrist.

Is that your reading of it as well?

Memphis said...

Mike, long time no talk, hope all is well with you and my other friends who I have been out of touch with lately.

I have not been around and therefore have not been reading the blog. The blog to me has become nothing more than people with to much time on their hands and the need to be heard by somebody. I think that the intentions at first might have been in the right spirit, there are issues still to be addressed, but now it is nothing more than a place to spout bitterness. Which is sad in a way, becasue I believe some over there have a true concerns, while others vent, argue, call names, and belittle others that disagree with them.

I know many of them are moving to other churches, and I wish them well and pray that they do find a plce to worship in the right spirit. I know that some are hurting, I just wish they would remember that pain is necessary in this life, but misery is optional.

As for my Superhero name..is Iceman taken yet?

SpringerSpaniel said...

solomon said...

In my opinion, I don't think any professing Christian should contribute to that blog any more than they should go to a strip club.

I don't think we've seen the worst yet, either.


Careful now... soon they will be saying that Steve Gaines was seen leaving a strip club... or rather... a very good source told them that Steve Gaines was seen leaving a strip club. And then, of course saying that "well, my source was wrong. But SG is a blah blah blah blah so it probably is true anyways. And his wife dances there as well."

And then the obligatory "go sign the petition for a bidness meeting" post.

Mike Bratton said...

Mempho, you are Iceman.

Now, would that be Marvel Comics' Iceman, Val Kilmer's character "Iceman" from Top Gun, or mixed martial arts champ "The Iceman" Chuck Liddell?

We must have clarification.

Springer, I just can't bring myself to give up on the Closed Forum denizens as of yet.

And Mort, I think that's one way to read what was written, yes. Unfortunately.

--Mike

solomon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bepatient said...

Okay, I am having trouble remembering when this story about the 15 year old "broke" but I do distinctly remember the original poster saying that the girl had been banned, but the ban had been lifted but no one remembered to tell the security guards. Now I see a post that says she was never banned?

And just like they speak to SG's behavior being a predictor of his future behavior (I think they watch too much Dr. Phil) that would hold true for this girl as well. Those security guards only had her past to go on, and she obviously had interaction with them previously based on her own telling of the story.

I also have a very hard time believing that she was contrite and meek and scared. That doesn't go along with what her personality seems to have been like in the past and even if she managed to get a handle on her behavior, that doesn't change her into a different person.

Anyone have a better recollection of this or some insight?

bepatient said...

Also wondering about the part of the story where the MPD was "appalled" at this? Seriously? MPD officers who see all kinds of sick stuff and the worst car accidents and murders and drug addicts were "appalled"?

bepatient said...

For those superheros who have a bat phone.... You have a message in the batcave!!

bepatient said...

From you-know-where

I agree with what has already been posted regarding the fact that God is ALWAYS present when two or more are gathered in His Name.

Aren't these the same people that have been saying that God has left BBC and we are in the darkness?

I know 100% for sure that some have said that God is NOT in that building much less the Worship Center. And no one spoke up against it, so they must agree!

solomon said...

It's rare that I see something worth sharing from the NBBCOF, but a blogger calling himself 'standfirm' wrote this on the thread for complaining about SG's new book:

The people who are sitting in church every Sunday, and listening to SG and like him, are not the hypocrites. The members, like yourself, who complain, sit around and do nothing, and go to church, but, have anger in your hearts against SG, are the real hypocrites.

Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark!

SpringerSpaniel said...

solomon said...

It's rare that I see something worth sharing from the NBBCOF, but a blogger calling himself 'standfirm' wrote this on the thread for complaining about SG's new book:

The people who are sitting in church every Sunday, and listening to SG and like him, are not the hypocrites. The members, like yourself, who complain, sit around and do nothing, and go to church, but, have anger in your hearts against SG, are the real hypocrites.

Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark!


Nahh... they'll question his manhood, then belittle him then pile on.

Then, if he continues to post, the umm... let me make sure I quote this thusly and like so...

"take out the trash"

I think that's the correct quote.

junk99mail said...

Mike,
Looks like your blog has become the anti-anti-BBC (or at least the anti-NBBCOF) place to be!

Congrats! :)

Mike Bratton said...

junk99mail said...
Mike,
Looks like your blog has become the anti-anti-BBC (or at least the anti-NBBCOF) place to be!

Congrats! :)


Um, thank you, I guess!

An easier term would be a site that promotes healing, responsibility, and commonality in the current situation. I'm not "anti" anything, actually, except counterproductive actions and attitudes.

I'm glad to see folks being more vocal. It's a good thing.

--Mike

junk99mail said...

mike bratton said...
An easier term would be a site that promotes healing, responsibility, and commonality in the current situation.

Oh, so THAT'S what has been going on here lately! Funny, it looks to me a lot like if you change the screen names and who is the subject of conversation, the content and tone have been striklingly similar recently.

In one case you have people talking bad about people they think are doing bad, in the other you have people talking bad about the people who they think are talking bad. And neither side seems to see the similarities, and each side seems to think the other side is being much worse.

But ya know what? I got everyone beat! I talk just as bad on both blogs! And my heart and life are much nastier than that!! I an certain that the worst things anyone has said or thought about anyone else on either blog is nowhere near the reality of my own sinfulness in God's eyes.

Mike Bratton said...

junk99mail said...
mike bratton said...
An easier term would be a site that promotes healing, responsibility, and commonality in the current situation.

Oh, so THAT'S what has been going on here lately! Funny, it looks to me a lot like if you change the screen names and who is the subject of conversation, the content and tone have been striklingly similar recently.


Then I suggest a visit to your neighborhood optometrist.

Never mind the garbage that precipitated the latest article--you may have missed these points from previous articles. Flipping through the pages thusly, and like so:

It doesn't have to be that way, though. Once again, I beg those who participate in the Forum, in the name of Jesus, to repent of their mindset and their actions. They do nothing to heal, and do much to harm.

And how have anti-Bellevue sympathizers "protected" or "preserved" much of anything? We've seen them, as a group, fumble every chance to maturely speak to the issues that are supposed to drive them; equate their brothers in Christ with Fascists, the Mafia, and Satanists; and make un-Biblical pronouncements regarding who is--or is not--a Christian. What we haven't seen is concern for the church body as a whole or the meekness, the strength under Christ's control, that would allow them to speak up about an issue without defaming others.

Real men, and real women, are up to that task. So, what do you say, IDC-ers and Forum-ites? Will the discourse of the playground be your only legacy, or can you leave the taunts, bitterness and antagonism behind you?

This has to stop. You injure yourselves with your behavior, and contribute nothing to the distribution of the Gospel. If you have concerns about Bellevue, lay them at Jesus' feet as you would any other concerns, and leave them there. Is God deaf to the petitions of His children? Will He not move as He sees fit for our benefit and for His glory?

The Easter season is a time when the unsaved are more open to the message of Christ than they might be otherwise. Please, I beg you: Take the energy you invest in negativity and contention, and reinvest it in the only thing that has eternal consequences--sharing the love of Jesus as He gives you the chance.


There is no significant correlative sentiment in the Closed Forum, thanks. There are death threats, blackmail threats, slurs and gossip emanating from there, but not so much in the way of an appeal for understanding and responsible discussion.

Please--look again.

In one case you have people talking bad about people they think are doing bad, in the other you have people talking bad about the people who they think are talking bad. And neither side seems to see the similarities, and each side seems to think the other side is being much worse.

When I threaten someone's life, you let me know. When I allow death threats, blackmail, and judgements about who is really a Christian to become the coin of the realm around here, you just be sure and let me know.

But ya know what? I got everyone beat! I talk just as bad on both blogs! And my heart and life are much nastier than that!! I an certain that the worst things anyone has said or thought about anyone else on either blog is nowhere near the reality of my own sinfulness in God's eyes.

Thanks for that.

--Mike

solomon said...

junk,

Perhaps the focus here has been on the NBBCOF lately, but it's a huge roadblock to healing right now. There will never be any progress until certain people are scripturally rebuked and encouraged to construct instead of destruct.
I can't even begin to tell you how hard that thing has made it for me to convince people that something is really wrong at Bellevue. I've been humiliated at work, in BFC, and even in my own home. Just today someone who's taking a trip to NY asked me if I could get them the keys to 'Steve's apartment'.

Honestly, I'm reluctant to even try to do anything that identifies me with the 'anti-Gaines' people. The spiritual backbone of the blog (aslansown, westtnbarrister, et. al.) have apparently moved on, and it's hard for me to find anything worthwhile over there.

But ya know what? I got everyone beat! I talk just as bad on both blogs! And my heart and life are much nastier than that!! I an certain that the worst things anyone has said or thought about anyone else on either blog is nowhere near the reality of my own sinfulness in God's eyes.

That's the difference between you and most of the others, junk. You keep the nasty junk that's in your heart between you and God. (And believe it or not, it's not any different than anyone else's junk, including my own.)

junk99mail said...

Mike,
I was referring primarily to comments from some of your most recent regulars (the folks cast out by the outcasts). Of course there are differences ... I spoke in hyperbolic language to make the point of the irony to be found in complaining about the complainers and criticizing the criticizers.

I do understand that you and others are grieved by the ways things are being handled by those with concerns, just as they are grieved about they way things are being handled by those they are upset with. We all need to watch our hearts and our "tongues" (keyboards), especially when dealing with issues we feel strongly about.

I try to take any harsh and inappropriate words with grace, knowing that (as ay former pastor used to say), "hurt people hurt people." There is no excuse for some of the things you've indicated that you experienced. But, even so, I encourage you (and them, and myself) to "be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you."

truthseeker said...

Mike and others,
The people are looking for answers and accountability. If the administration keeps sitting around and not doing what is right, it will not get any better. If we keep sitting around and not doing or saying something, it will not get any better. People are leaving the church, believe it or not. People are leaving the choir, believe it or not. You cannot run the church like it is a business. Do I trust SG and the other administration? NO. Am I leaving believe BBC? NO. Why? Because I truly believe God is going to take care of everything. We had better wake up. So you and others can used all the play on words you desire and continue to be down the blog and petitions if you desire. I know that many are saying things on the blog that should not be said, but this the only way we can get a voice heard. WAKE UP OR CONTINUE TO GET PUSHED DOWN.

Mike Bratton said...

junk99mail said...
Mike,
I was referring primarily to comments from some of your most recent regulars (the folks cast out by the outcasts). Of course there are differences ... I spoke in hyperbolic language to make the point of the irony to be found in complaining about the complainers and criticizing the criticizers.

I do understand that you and others are grieved by the ways things are being handled by those with concerns, just as they are grieved about they way things are being handled by those they are upset with. We all need to watch our hearts and our "tongues" (keyboards), especially when dealing with issues we feel strongly about.

I try to take any harsh and inappropriate words with grace, knowing that (as ay former pastor used to say), "hurt people hurt people." There is no excuse for some of the things you've indicated that you experienced. But, even so, I encourage you (and them, and myself) to "be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you."


Those aren't merely things that I've experienced, those are things that people who refuse to acquiesce to the anti-Bellevue mentality have experienced.

And I have no option but to forgive, even when people don't ask for it.

truthseeker said...
Mike and others,
The people are looking for answers and accountability.


There may be still some of that evidenced in the Axis of Bitterness websites, but it is slowly being drowned in a sea of obscenities.

If the administration keeps sitting around and not doing what is right, it will not get any better. If we keep sitting around and not doing or saying something, it will not get any better.

So prayer plays no part? God is unable to deal with folks' hearts and minds? And those who have genuine concerns have lease to publish the foul sentiments I quoted in the original article--because "saying something" is better than saying nothing, regardless of what that "something" is?

People are leaving the church, believe it or not. People are leaving the choir, believe it or not.

There's a difference between being led by God to go someplace else, and walking off in a huff.

And since you mentioned the choir, let me tell you a little story--something I witnessed firsthand. (If you are a member of the Rogers family, please skip the rest of this paragraph.) As we in the choir were on our way into the choir loft to sing for Pastor Rogers' funeral service, one choir member said to another that "I made sure to sing in the choir today, 'cause it's the best seat in the house!" The other choir member smiled, nodded, and agreed. Only after the service concluded did I have a chance to be sickened by what I'd heard.

If you are not there to serve, the Bellevue choir is not the place for you to be. If you are not there to worship, work, and witness (as the old hymn says), Bellevue Baptist Church is not the place for you to be. No church should be subjected to people who are merely there to get great seats.

No doubt my observation will be misrepresented, and intentionally twisted into something along the lines of "If you don't like it, leave." Too easily, that avoids the very real possibility that the problem might not be so much with the church as with the individual.

You cannot run the church like it is a business.

Then why do you focus on "customer demographics" and popularity?

Do I trust SG and the other administration? NO.

My, my. No one? At all?

Am I leaving believe BBC? NO. Why? Because I truly believe God is going to take care of everything. We had better wake up. So you and others can used all the play on words you desire and continue to be down the blog and petitions if you desire.

Do you defend the death threats?

Do you defend the bitterness?

Do you defend the "demon" and "Antichrist" remarks?

Those are the things most people, including my own self, are "down" on. Are you?

I know that many are saying things on the blog that should not be said, but this the only way we can get a voice heard. WAKE UP OR CONTINUE TO GET PUSHED DOWN.

Imagine that--someone suggesting that the ends do, in point of fact, justify the means. What's next? "By any means necessary"?

--Mike

solomon said...

I know that many are saying things on the blog that should not be said, but this the only way we can get a voice heard.

It is never, under any circumstances, acceptable to sin. Never. No matter whether it's during times of temption, frustration, or oppression, the only response God will accept is Christlikeness.

No one can force a Christian to sin, only tempt them. When Christians are cursed, they bless. When they are struck, they turn the other cheek. If they are compelled to travel one mile, they gladly offer to go two. They do everything without arguing or complaining. Whatever they do, they do it all in the name of Jesus while giving thanks to God the father through him.

The NBBCOF is a huge temptation to sin. We all have a tendency to compare ourselves to others. I'm sure at one time or another most of the bloggers have thought 'what I just posted was wrong, but it wasn't as bad as xxxx's post'. No excuse.

I'm no more of a Steve Gaines fan than you are, truthseeker, but what's the latest offense that outraged the NBBCOF?

Writing a book.

michelle mann said...

Hi big brother! Hope everything is going great for you guys...I still haven't gotten any PICTURES!!!!

I was reading some things over on the other form just now, and I really started feeling my blood boil at some things they are saying about you. Keeping with the family tradition, I am quoting "thusly and like so"...

***********************************

preacherdude said... If any of you have insomnia, please read Mike Bratton's blog, the Bratton report...BORING.
He complains about this blog but he wouldn't have anything to say with out this blog. He is guilty of the very same thing he says people here are guilty of.

Lwood said...
Must be boring in Alabama.....

Well, we all know those folks in Alabama know how to do church right much better than the folks in Memphis, right? :)

***********************************

There are a couple of other comments saying, "Mike - Mike who? I don't remember" with little smilie faces after them, and comments to the effect of "Yeah, he left town, but is still blogging about us." I mean, do these guys listen to themselves? I think they believe that just because they feel wronged and hurt (and I think that there are valid reasons for SOME of that hurt), that they have the right to hurl hateful comments at someone who has only asked that they calm down so that they will be taken seriously and to boost their credibility by using their real names! You never said that there weren't problems at Bellevue, just that there are simply better ways to find solutions. Calming down and coming forward would not mean that they care any less about the church - quite the opposite. It would mean that they realize that nothing is being accomplished to get to botttom of these messes so far, so the logical thing to do at this point would be to find a different approach.

I was close to posting a reply to those who think it's so cute to be rude. But, you know like our mother always says, when someone says something disparaging to you or about you, they are just trying to make themselves look better or more important than they actually are. But the result is far from that...they wind up looking unChrist-like or even decent, for that matter.

Since I know you have no desire to post over there, do you want me to say something to let them know how these comments are making them look? Or should we just ignore them and let them continue to amuse themselves? I realize I'm just the little sister, but my "mama bear" alter-ego usually reserved for when someone wrongs your niece has come out in full force!

solomon said...

Judging from what passes for entertainment over there, it's no wonder preacherdude thinks it's boring here.

Maybe Mike should add some links to a wrestling or roller derby site.

SpringerSpaniel said...

I have acutally watched a Wrestlemania with Mike...

So he just might start adding Wrestling links...

And... is it really fair to pull up a two year old IRS form (when Bro. Steve was still in Birmingham for 8 1/2 months of the year) and infer current activity from it??

In fact... it kind of seems stalkery that they would actually hunt down a form 990... then research the address, registration et al. and comment on the possible incorrectness therein.

That's getting into "Lets try to destroy the man at any cost" territory, doesn't it?

Mike Bratton said...

See, folks? My sister is a genius!

No, hon, just let their insubstantial remarks fly. Just about every one of those people has had innumerable chances to say to me, face-to-face, anything similar to the garbage they write in their online kaffeeklatsch.

When I know who they are, they're nothing but nice in person; when I don't know who they are, they don't say a thing, though they like to drop little hints that they're in the choir and such. Does the phrase "I wish they'd do that when I was around" ring a bell? :)

I have a significant amount of work today, but give me a call if you have the chance. When are you and your fam coming down?

--Mike

Memphis said...

Springer said "That's getting into "Lets try to destroy the man at any cost" territory, doesn't it?"

I agree with you 100% on this. So much for trying to build a person up when you think they are faltering, but more of a kick em when they are down and pur salt on any open wounds.

I saw a post the other day talking about marching around BBC to see if the walls would fall down like Jericho! Nice huh?

I have often said this to my wife, but what if on that blog, it was all anonymus postings, no one knew who anyone else was, do you still think the regulars would read it differently? What I mean is do they tend to think that their own posts are not as bad since they are all united???

Hope that made sense.

Mike Bratton said...

SpringerSpaniel said...
I have acutally watched a Wrestlemania with Mike...


Boy, that Wrestlemania reference was a flashback, Springer...

And I know I'm going to leave a lot of people slack-jawed, but a good portion of professional wrestling is no different than the "morality plays" of the 1500-1600s. Plus, I will admit to having "professionally" wrestled once.

For charity.

So he just might start adding Wrestling links...

Let me tell you something, cat-daddy! Monday night, in the Mid-South Coliseum--I'm taking on Austin Idol for the Southern Heavyweight Championship!

:)

Oh, I forgot--I'm considered boring by those folks over at The View... um, I mean, at the Closed Forum.

Roller derby, Sol? That's fixed, isn't it?

And... is it really fair to pull up a two year old IRS form (when Bro. Steve was still in Birmingham for 8 1/2 months of the year) and infer current activity from it??

Where did the form come from?

In fact... it kind of seems stalkery that they would actually hunt down a form 990... then research the address, registration et al. and comment on the possible incorrectness therein.

"Kind of"? You're generous.

That's getting into "Lets try to destroy the man at any cost" territory, doesn't it?

Heads on pikes, Springer--that's the anti-Bellevue goal. Cast aspersions and shadows, be uniformly hostile, corrupt any opportunity for legitimate discussion, all with the goal of destroying the careers of those in their cross-hairs.

I pray for the day when that isn't the case, and when more mature voices prevail; but, of course, when that day comes, they won't be anti-Bellevue any more.

And that might be boring to them.

--Mike

bepatient said...

Hulk Hogan is going to be at the Forum tomorrow night!

Clash of the Legends.

michelle mann said...

Michael, exactly when and where was this charity event at which you wrestled? I have no recollection!

SpringerSpaniel said...

Memphis said...

I saw a post the other day talking about marching around BBC to see if the walls would fall down like Jericho! Nice huh?


That was actually proposed by whoever did the SaveSavingBellevue sight... a "Parody" of the Saving Bellevue.

And was kind of funny.

SpringerSpaniel said...

Mike Bratton said...

SpringerSpaniel said...
I have acutally watched a Wrestlemania with Mike...

Boy, that Wrestlemania reference was a flashback, Springer...


I used the wayback machine!!!

Mike Bratton said...

michelle mann said...
Michael, exactly when and where was this charity event at which you wrestled? I have no recollection!


Froggy vs. 92.9 WMFS, at the Old Daisy.

I thought you'd seen the tape?

--Mike

P.S.: Yes, folks, there's a tape.

bepatient said...

At the business meeting next year, how about we present a motion to pay off the Gaines' house for them if it isn't already...;)

bepatient said...

I am going to get the NBBCOF Investigative team right to work getting that tape, Mike!!!

SpringerSpaniel said...

bepatient said...

At the business meeting next year, how about we present a motion to pay off the Gaines' house for them if it isn't already...;)

12:16 PM, April 26, 2007


And buy both Steve and Donna new cars... I'm thinking something Italian... Red... perhaps a Ferrari or a Lambo... then we can have, in very small, tasteful letter, Bellevue Baptist Church stenciled on the rear fenders. That way they can write it off as advertising.

Just kidding, folks.

Memphis said...

Maybe Mike would like it better if we picked wrestler names instead of Super Heroes! I admit the "Heartbreak Kid" was always one of my favs!

OHHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

junk99mail said...

Mike Bratton said...
Oh, I forgot--I'm considered boring by those folks over at The View... um, I mean, at the Closed Forum.

Ok, I'll admit it. I'm really Rosie O'Donnell. I'm fat and not funny. Just ask The Donald.

And ... just cuz one person says you're boring doesn't mean the rest of "those folks" do. :)

junk99mail said...

Michelle said...
I was close to posting a reply to those who think it's so cute to be rude.

Hello, again, Michelle. Since I am one of the people you quoted (out of context, but I still get your point), I'll respond (but only for myself -- I don't intend to defend anyone's wrong actions, including my own). "Rude" can be a matter of perspective and intent. What one person perceives as rude can actually be seen as appropriate by others (especially when crossing even minor cultural lines). Since there is no way to know for sure another person's intent, life becomes a lot less stressful when we assume the best of them.

I admire your loyalty and defense of your brother.

"Rosie"

michelle mann said...

Hey Junkster - thanks for your comments.

It hurts my heart whenever I see or hear anyone get put down in any way - it's just amplified when that person is my brother.

It is just so clear to me that the primary reason that those over on the other forum (SOME, not all, please understand) get so overwhelmingly upset and so angry with Michael is because they know deep down in their hearts that the road they are going down leads absolutely nowhere. It's easier to "raise your voice" so to speak than to stop and say to youself, "Wait a second, could I be doing something different?" If you hang on to your anger for long enough, it will eat you up inside until there is nothing but bitterness and a wall around your heart. I know this because I have been in such a position several times in my life. After I was through screaming, the realization came that I was going nowhere if I kept that up. I just needed a little "re-direction".

In my experience, when people are misled, hurt, or lied to, they can react in one of two ways. They either fly into a blind rage and stay there, which won't bring about a resolution or any type of justice, or they take a deep breath, gather their facts, and go straight to the offender(s) and make sure that the situation is rectified.

I am not a member of Bellevue, so I have not witnessed any of the incidents that you all discuss, but I am a Christian who loves the Lord. That's why I care about everyone involved and I care about what happens to Bellevue. And, that's also the reason that Michael is still blogging, even though he's not in Memphis any longer.

I pray for you guys every day (sometimes two or three times-gasp!)and it is my sincere hope that as soon as possible you all can get back to going about the business of leading the lost to Jesus, growing together, and nurturing each other. We are only human, and we are all certainly sinners, but I fully believe that there are strong Christians in your ranks who have powerful testimonies capable of reaching even the most hopeless and spiritually empty. I hope that the time will come soon when that power is unleashed and the Lord uses those people for His glory and Bellevue becomes a brand new, shining beacon for Him!

Karen said...

Michelle,

Since some folks at BBC think MY brother is YOUR brother (they do favor each other!), they probably think I am you! Confused?

No really, I hope you don't consider all of "us" rude. I try not to be, but sometimes it just comes out. Mike, you know I love ya! But this sniping back and forth really is getting old - from both sides. I've done my share of "behave yourselves" on both sides to no avail, so I can only control myself.

karen

michelle mann said...

Karen - in no way do I think you are rude. Note that I said "some", not "all". In the end, you are only accoutable for your own words and deeds, no one else's.

It's clear in all of your posts that you have been wronged and hurt and you want resolution, but you don't go out on a tangent.

Speaking of being rude brought this to mind. I have 14 exotic birds at home, and one of them is a blue and gold Macaw whose name is Fred (his wife is Ethel, together they are the Mertzes! Really!) Anywho, one of Fred's favorite new phrases is, "How rude!" He sounds just like Ja Ja Binks in Star Wars! He's such a hoot.

Lwood said...

Michelle Mann said

Since I know you have no desire to post over there, do you want me to say something to let them know how these comments are making them look?

Does the word BANNED rather than No Desire describe the no posting on the bbc forum from Michael Bratton

solomon said...

Well, that certainly blessed my afternoon!

I'll bet you get invited to a lot of parties, lwood!

michelle mann said...

Hi lwood - thanks for commenting.

Michael wanted people to stand behind their words using their names, so he was banned from posting in that forum. I remember now.

I appreciate your correction. Have a good evening!

Lwood said...

Michelle
Did not mean the comments to be hurtful...There is a lot of hurt going on at BBC and a lot has been said on both sides of the issue..I think the comments about Mike going to Alabama (I know mine were) was just in jest..... We really wished Mike and his family the best on his move. Most everyone likes Mike and even tho we don't agree with a lot he says we appreciate his side of the comments.....As his Sis I can see how some might be hurtful to you. Sorry if I contrubuted to your hurt.

Oh Soloman by the way.... I am a little OLD Grandma and used to go to lots of parties but now most of my entertainment comes from Babysitting the Grandkids:)Lots of fun!!!!!!!

solomon said...

lwood,

So the parties find you, then. My girls live for their trips to their "gran's" house.

She embroidered that poem David Jeremiah read when he was here and hung it in her den:

I've seen the lights of Paris
I've seen the lights of Rome
But the greatest lights I've ever seen
Are the tail lights of my children's car
Taking my grandkids home.

Lwood said...

Solomon
You got that right on the money but I love every minute of it.....After the post this afternoon I got to thinking.....I bet I'v changed most of this bunch's diapers in the nursery at BBC. rocked them to sleep singing Jesus loves me and Swung them in the swings at the old Bellevue....What some memories.....
Wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

preacherdude777 said...

Michelle & Mike... I just want to say I am sorry for saying your blog is boring & any other thing that might have offended. I offer no other excuse but that I had a weak moment & I wanted to see if I could get "published" on here. I know it was wrong but I was bored & just messing around.
I don't agree with somethings on the other blog much less stuff on here but I should have been nicer about it.
Some topics there are sort of off the wall and I think they sometimes just don't understand what it is like to be in the ministry or how a church runs. But I give them grace to make some comments because people like to just talk things over no matter how goofy they are. I don't know about the death threats or who is judging others christianity but don't lump me in that group. I don't go there. I might question someone mental condition, but not their salvation. The book thing seemed sort of stupid to me at first until I read part of it...no comment right now...but I won't buy it.
Anyway, just wanted to appologize for my stupid comments and I ask for both of your forgiveness.

solomon said...

preacherdude,

I don't want to speak for Mike (because he does an adequate job of speaking for himself), but I wouldn't worry too much about offending him by saying the blog is boring. He's not quick to take offense to things said about him and his blog, but rather when people try to justify questionable behavior.

I'm also sure that his sister was more upset about the people saying 'Mike who?' than anything else. For anyone to say that after the many ways he's served Bellevue over the years is downright ungrateful. I have to admit that it upset me a little.

I've been keeping an eye on the other blog to see who 'arminius' will show up as ('john mark' and 'jd' most recently). I'll probably stop reading it now that they've started running down Ken Whitten, but I saw some of your exchanges with WHS. I really liked what you told him about doing indepth research instead of reading internet articles.

Hopefully some of the other bloggers will take note.

Arron said...

wow. And more mud is slung. I am really annoyed with statements like that. For the record, not all dissenting views are brainless and petty, just like not all party-line views are good and God-breathed. BOTH sides have emotional baggage that gets in the way and makes them say stupid things. I have a friend who is in seminary, and when he DARED to say that something MIGHT possibly be wrong in very mild terms, he was roundly castigated by the "pro-SG-ers" (I don't really have a good term for them) who automatically assumed that he was trying to do the devil's work, and treated him quite badly on his blog.

In addition, logically, just because some idiot thinks SG is the antichrist does not mean that SG is the right man for Bellevue, either. It just means that nothing meaningful has been said.

As for me, though, I am gla to be away, so that I think on other things. Life is too short to be hung up on problems in a church. God does not work only through Bellevue, and since I'm not sure exactly what to thik about Bellevue, I will go away, until the Holy Spirit tells me otherwise, or until my God-given wisdom allows me to perceive that there is nothing evil going on.

I do not post from anonimity.
I am Arron Powell, son of Ron and Susan, who left, not because they are evil people, but because they prayed long and hard, and were convicted to do so.

Connie said...

While not a member, I have been following the situation at Bellevue for some months via the web.
What is so interesting to me is that I have experienced the identical thing while dealing with my local government school. I have seen the leader (supt./pastor)lie and deceive; the board members/deacons,elders) kowtow and back up the lies; the money used improperly and covered up; the majority irrationally ignore all the chicanery and accuse those trying to get to the truth of every sort of evil. Been there, done that and know how it end. The deceivers in power stay in power, the lying continues and the majority is happy. Same thing going on in politics. Bush (and Clinton) lie and abuse their power but stay in power and the minority trying to expose the evil are shouted down by the majority who can't face the truth.